Room for All

Room for All - S1 E2 - Sophia Ballone, Hotel Etico’s Employment Manager

• Andrea Comastri • Season 1 • Episode 2

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Empowering Inclusive Careers in Hospitality: Insights and Strategies

In this insightful episode of Room for All, hosts Andrea and Saraya engage in an enlightening discussion with Sofia Ballone, Employment Manager at Hotel Etico, about the importance of inclusive hiring practices in the hospitality industry. The episode delves into Sofia's background, her passion for human rights, and her commitment to aiding trainees with disabilities in securing meaningful employment. The conversation highlights the evolving landscape of employment, tackling barriers such as staff shortages, immigration policies, and outdated recruitment processes. Emphasizing practical work experience and innovative recruitment strategies, the episode offers actionable solutions for integrating individuals with disabilities into the workforce. Sofia shares the significance of extending work experience, providing support for complex hiring processes, and leveraging government funding for necessary workplace adaptations. The cultural benefits of inclusivity are underscored through case studies and real-world examples, demonstrating the positive impacts on workplace dynamics and employer attitudes. The episode concludes with a motivational note on resilience and persistence, encouraging employers to embrace inclusivity and listeners to stay tuned for more inspiring content.

00:00 Welcome to Room for All

01:44 Meet Sophia Ballone

02:22 Sophia's Role at Hotel Etico

03:31 Sophia's Background and Inspiration

07:27 The Importance of Inclusive Hiring

13:56 Challenges and Misconceptions in Hiring

27:15 Exploring Innovative Tools in Hospitality

28:02 Impact of Employing Individuals with Disabilities

31:50 Training and Support for Employers

37:51 Challenges in Creating Lasting Careers

39:40 Support Systems and Employer Collaboration

42:17 Encouraging Inclusive Hiring Practices

44:22 Personal Reflections and Closing Remarks

Andrea:

Hello, everyone. We are back in Room for All. Welcome to Episode two of Season one for Room for All. We're here at Hotel Etico and I'm here with my co host, Saraya O'Connell.

Saraya:

Hi, everyone.

Andrea:

Hi, Saraya. And today, first in the studio, in person, is our special guest, our, Great colleague, Sophia Ballone. Hi, Sophia. How are you?

Sophia Ballone:

Good, thanks. Hi, everyone.

Andrea:

Welcome. Welcome to Room for All, the inclusion in hospitality podcast.

Saraya:

How does it feel to be our first in person guest?

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, I wish I wish you had picked someone else.

Saraya:

Yeah.

Andrea:

That's how we roll, Sophia. Yeah.

Sophia Ballone:

I know I've learnt that already.

Saraya:

It has to be comfortable and the discomfort.

Andrea:

That's right. So why don't you get us started, Saraya?

Saraya:

So, Sophia, um, first question is I want you to introduce yourself and what you do with Hotel Etico, Okay, um, and just tell us a little bit about you.

Andrea:

who

Saraya:

is Sofia Ballone? Yeah, who is she? What does she do besides looking fabulous in pink?

Sophia Ballone:

Oh, thank you. who am I? I guess first and foremost my role here is Employment Manager. I, feel like I am the tie between the training and the work. The industry. I help the guys find employment once they finish up here, with their 52 weeks of training and, yeah, help them prepare for that transition as well, and during that transition, and then just keep tabs on them once they, are actually settled in, so. that's,

Saraya:

Yeah, it is a big job and it is probably one of our most, needed jobs. Cause if that, if your role didn't exist, then we wouldn't be

Andrea:

That's right. That's The, uh, the proof of success for the model is, uh, that uh, graduates secure employment and, um, and hold employment.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah. No pressure guys.

Saraya:

Yeah, no pressure.

Andrea:

So far, The results are fantastic. So, but Sophia, tell us a little bit about more about yourself. First of all. Can you put to rest once and for all how you pronounce your name? For the general public.

Sophia Ballone:

Ballone. Sofia Ballone.

Andrea:

Ballone. Okay. And where does the name come from?

Sophia Ballone:

it's Italian. but my parents are from Argentina. So my dad's side was, I believe, third generation Argentinian. So, that's where the surname comes from. But

Andrea:

So tú hablas español.

Sophia Ballone:

Sí.

Andrea:

Muy bien.

Saraya:

Keep going. We could just do this whole podcast in Spanish.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, but You wouldn't you wouldn't be included.

Saraya:

That's fine. That's cool.

Andrea:

I actually, yesterday talking about it, I was saying I'm going to introduce Sophia in Spanish. And then I forgot about it, Okay.

Saraya:

We always say a lot of things. Oh yeah, we should do this, we should do that.

Andrea:

So who's Sophia the person? Tell us a little bit about yourself personally.

Saraya:

what inspired you to work for Hotel Etico?

Sophia Ballone:

Well, um, as a person, I guess I am most importantly a mum to my little man, william, um, who keeps me on my toes constantly. Um, and outside of that, I am a very creative person.

Andrea:

Very colourful,

Sophia Ballone:

Yes, yes, I I, I am quite well known for my colorful hair, although it's, it's due for an update and yes, and clothes. I like to be as authentic as possible for who I am in expressing myself, in my beliefs and I guess that also speaks to why I was inspired to join, um, Hotel Etico family. We, yeah, I, from a young age I knew that I wanted to do something that was meaningful, something that, worked with human rights in some capacity. originally, when I first left high school, I wanted to go into, law and actually study human rights and become a human rights lawyer. but my, I guess my journey took me a different way and I fell in love with, you know, Manage, management, well, managing and management. so that's how I kind of landed in HR. and I like the human aspect of it, I'm, One of my, I guess, interests outside of everything is, psychology, so I majored that in, my degrees. And, yeah, I just somehow, through the waves of life, um, found my way in HR, and then, was lucky enough to meet you guys as, an employer.

Andrea:

Well, guess what, Sophia? Your journey actually got you exactly in the heart of the human rights. Behind us, on that frame, there's a certificate of award from the Human Rights Commission because Hotel Etico in 2022 won Human Rights Award. So I think, it was, it was meant to be. It was meant to be. you're in the right place for sure.

Saraya:

I'm super grateful. I knew from the first time I met you that there was something and I was like, Ooh, she needs to be at Hotel Etico. so I'm super, super grateful to have you. I think you're amazing.

Andrea:

Before joining Hotel Etico, what were you doing?

Sophia Ballone:

Work wise? I was in, I was a HR generalist at Fullerton Hotel Sydney.

Andrea:

The Fullerton, which is one of our partners, right? So you knew our program, you knew our graduates, you knew us. so it was a great segue in a way into, into the next step of your career, I think.

Saraya:

Um, in today's podcast we've probably got so much to cover when it comes to what you do and how you do it and employers and stuff. So we will try to keep, probably need another. 45 minutes. We'll do another episode probably. but like, I think the biggest things that we want to cover today is the importance of inclusive hiring. We want to get some takeaways for our listeners for that. creating pathways from jobs to careers. So, you know, we talk all the time that we don't just, we don't want our trainees to go into jobs. We want them to go into careers. and then. some takeaways for best practice for businesses to be able to actually implement and hire somebody with a disability. So, we're probably going to need a few episodes of this one, but I think we'll, we'll try and at least give, uh, quite a lot of takeaways.

Andrea:

So, inclusive hiring.

Saraya:

Why? I mean, we're, We're preaching to the choir here, us three. cause the choir? Isn't that

Andrea:

you're preaching to the converted.

Sophia Ballone:

No, no, no, it's choir.

Andrea:

I don't know.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, because if you preach to the choir, you're preaching to people that already believe that are part of the congregation that is there.

Saraya:

Soph, if I have never loved you more. Because I get

Andrea:

Let's agree to disagree. Yeah, we will have to. I get all my metaphors

Saraya:

wrong. Like, um, there was one and I, for a year, he's been teasing me about it. Something about salt. Uh, I don't want to share it. It was so dumb. But like, it was dumb. But for my entire life I was dumb.

Andrea:

Now let's take this with a grand assault. That was Saraya's line instead of let's take this with a grain of salt. With a grand assault. Which doesn't work either, it doesn't make sense.

Saraya:

Keep in mind, right, I probably heard that metaphor and I'm 40 percent deaf and I read lips so like I probably just make up my own stuff all the time but thank you for proving that I just got a metaphor right because that actually means the world to me.

Andrea:

So why do you believe that inclusive hiring practices are essential for the hospitality industry?

Sophia Ballone:

I think the most obvious one is how staff how much we are lacking staff in the hospitality industry, the necessity and requirement for how, and just yesterday I was looking at a video saying how many more hotels we're going to need within New South Wales.

Andrea:

40, 000 beds or something, right?

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah. Like if we're struggling already now to be filling our hotels with the right amount of staff, then let's be honest, if we open the doors. that many more rooms. It's going to be a necessity. And, the, I guess the, the best thing about opening that door to, being a bit more inclusive and getting people with disability in is that it's a whole pool of people.

Andrea:

It opens up another pool.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah. Um, and it's not just a pool that, is rotating, like say your students that continuously rotate every, depends on what kind of visa, what kind of course they're doing, but it can be between every six months or every, three years. And that longevity is not a good solid plan, but with, um, people with disability, they're, they're keen, they're excited, they're, interested in working, which is not the same enthusiasm, at least I found when I was in HR trying to recruit. their dedication, their loyalty is next to none.

Andrea:

And if we combine that at government policy level with immigration tightening, and so there's yeah. Uh, migrants coming. and we student numbers are reducing as well, because the government is reducing that because of the housing housing crisis. There's a perfect storm in terms of having lack of staff.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah.

Andrea:

And as you said, biggest pain point for the industry is staff. And so that's where I suppose we come in and, inclusive practices help address that business problem.

Saraya:

And I think the difference is, is that we are training skilled staff. So we're not asking people to hire our graduates just to tick a box, we have skilled staff, like our, they've been with us for a year, they're training, in their elective, like, there's such a shortage of staff. skilled staff, within the hospitality space. I mean, and you know, you can teach hospitality, don't get me wrong, you can walk in entry level hospitality, but to actually have staff that can You know, already know the processes, already know the procedures.

Andrea:

They've worked.

Saraya:

They've worked. for a year in hospitality and that's a long time sometimes the people in hospitality. I remember a turnover in one of the restaurants that I worked in was like two weeks. People were lasting two weeks because they just couldn't cut it. I mean, it was a hotheaded chef. but they couldn't cut it. They really couldn't, they couldn't work. that, you know, you're on your feet all day. it's a hard job. Hospitality is a hard business.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, and it's it's surprising how many people go into it thinking that It's an easy job that will get them cash while they're studying or while they're in between something Um, and I think that's also part of the problem that you don't have people that are passionate as much as What it used to be

Andrea:

and the opportunities within the tourism and hospitality industry are huge

Saraya:

to make a career as well.

Andrea:

You can come in and go from pouring a beer or cleaning floor all the way up to a general manager or Managing multiple hotels and anything in between

Saraya:

from accounting to anything.

Andrea:

Back of house, front of house.

Sophia Ballone:

Yes. Yeah, there's it's um, it's a world in itself. Yeah. I, that's probably one of my favorite things about hospitality. Um, and, um, when I was working in bigger hotels is that the reality is you know, in that one little space, you have everything. You have business, you have, um, You have tradies, your chefs, and your, um, team from the engineering teams. You have your front liners, you like, you have your middle management, your upper management. You deal with absolutely every single kind of person that you can. potentially would be in the external world, but within that one space.

Andrea:

A hundred percent.

Saraya:

So when I was, um, traveling with Destination New South Wales, one of the things that came up was recruitment of people with a disability and, and how to actually make the recruitment process more inclusive. Like, I know that we train our graduates, like we prep them, you know, we do mock interviews, we do resume training, resume building and all of that. And I think that that's really important because they're really big life skills. Yeah. but what do you think of the normal recruitment process within hospitality? It's quite lengthy and formy. right?

Sophia Ballone:

Um, yeah.

Saraya:

How many forms did you fill out the other day?

Sophia Ballone:

Um, that well, that's just the beginning. But, um, yeah, no, I definitely think it's, it needs, it's very outdated. Yeah. Um, I also think there needs to be a way to reintroduce trials. Um, I understand that there is A lot of legal payroll. Yeah. there's a very, a lot of legal reasons why we can't do trials anymore. But, um, realistically, you look at some of their, like some of our guys' resumes and they haven't had any experience out of, outside of etico. Um, so

Saraya:

it doesn't show who they are. doesn't show what they can do and it doesn't show them

Andrea:

And they don't have the skills and the confidence to articulate it in an interview.

Sophia Ballone:

Like I I definitely feel like, um, what we do, how we support, how I support them through their interviews, it helps a lot. But even then, sometimes I'm like, I'm sitting back and I'm watching them and I'm like, Oh, I know that you can do better than that Like I know that it's just they're nervous and while they might not necessarily admit it to to me they they're always excited and i'm like, I know it's exciting, but it's also nerve wracking and i always tell them like It's okay to be nervous

Andrea:

Yeah.

Sophia Ballone:

as well as a little bit scared maybe and even excited but Like at the end of the day a job interview isn't a job interview and Unfortunately with people with disabilities, it doesn't necessarily give them the opportunity. to shine.

Andrea:

And let's not forget that the majority of our graduates have an intellectual disability rather than a physical disability. So that, that group we heard from Tracy Lee the other day is even more disadvantaged when it comes to employment. So that's another layer of complication. But it makes me think, I was thinking, because that's what I do, I just think, That maybe another way of, sort of part of the recruitment of the leading up to the recruitment through before graduation is to actually have almost like famil type of incursions here by the HR, the recruitment people from hotels that come and see almost like as mystery shoppers our trainees in action at work. And so they see them here at work, which sort of makes up a little bit for that trial that they can't afford the risk of doing. They see them here in action. So I think there's, there's something in there that we could sort of think of. You don't look very enthusiastic I think there's an opportunity there.

Saraya:

It's easier said than done because there's time restraints on HR. I think it's a hundred percent. Like we've got, um, industry partners that come and, that come and stay, come and visit, and we really encourage it, but for those that can't, I think, you know, like, uh, the videos that we do, the skills videos, and I think that that's something that, and it shouldn't just be for people with a disability. There are so many, like, the recruitment processes, like cover letters, are so outdated, Oh yeah. you know, like, it's just, it's It shouldn't just be for people with a disability. Yes, there should be some exceptions, but there are so many more people would, um, really value from that. Like, there are so many things. Like, it's so nerve wracking going for a job interview. And, and I think people need to, you know, it's, it's a great skill to, to be able to interview and, and, and things like that. But there's just, there's so much that can be done. Like, what about a walking interview? It puts people at ease. Like, there's simple things that that can be done. to make things just that little bit more relaxed. Like I know when I interview, it's about a conversation. It's not an interrogation. And I feel like there's just, and I don't think people mean to interrogate people, but you're trained in a certain way in HR, right? No offense, though.

Sophia Ballone:

No, I, I think that was something that I always made a point of when I used to, hold interviews. it's a conversation. It's to get to know each other. it's to see. if, You like what we're selling and if, what, and whether we like what you're selling. it's not necessarily just a, interrogation like you said.

Saraya:

another way that we, we as a business, like we, to transition our graduates is what we've been working on and what Soph works on in the, transition program is the work experience. So actually having work experience where you know that they want to work or where they've got interest to hire, that, that's another way. But we pay for that as a business, but for other people with a disability that aren't in Hotel Etico, it's really difficult.

Sophia Ballone:

And that's part of the reason why, I've increased the work experience.

Saraya:

Yeah.,Absolutely. It's it's essential. Um, because Continuous improvement on the program. Absolutely.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, no, I've increased it through an extra week, um, for this new group because I think giving them a little bit of exposure a little bit earlier, but also giving them employer the opportunity

Andrea:

Yeah, of course.

Sophia Ballone:

to experience them, um, and so it gives us a bit of a a chance for them to have. That exposure to something, uh, potentially a hotel that's bigger. Um, because I can think of a couple of guys that would would be exceptional for, um, reception or concierge. Unfortunately, we're a boutique hotel. We can't get that exposure. give them the true experience of that. Um, So, yeah, I, it's, and that's something that I'm very, very upfront with, um, the partners that I do place them with in their work experience. I let them know, I'm like, okay, we're, we just need work experience at this point in time, but we would really like you to consider off the back of work experience employment. Um, and it's kind of, kind of covers that trial without necessarily, um, having to add another layer to it.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Saraya:

Another thing that I think, employers could really use some help with is the, the forms and the process behind hiring somebody. it, it becomes really overwhelming for somebody with a disability. All of the forms, you know, the technology behind it, constant emails and so on. How do you support the graduates to, to do that?

Sophia Ballone:

How I do it? How I do it? I do it for them. so I'll sit down and have a conversation with them and fill it out with them. I, yeah, if they, the employer needs a point of contact, I'm their point of contact. because like you said, they do get overwhelmed with emails. They do get over, Some of them won't answer phone calls. and it's, it's hard. It's, it's, there's a lot, like by all means even even for me, when I was looking for a job and trying to apply and, going through the process, I, like, you're always on edge and you're always

Saraya:

What? are you laughing at?

Andrea:

Cover letter?

Saraya:

Yeah. Didn't you hear my, dig before about how outdated the recruitment process is, such as cover letters?

Andrea:

Yeah, but, you know, there's jobs and there's jobs. So, yeah, I, I agree. Like, intuitively, one would think out there, Oh, you know, why are you doing it for them? You're sort of, they're not learning. Let's be honest, like what, what part of filling in a form is such an essential skill? I hate forms. they might never be able to learn to do that. We need to accept that. Yeah, well the other thing is, a lot of these forms are, Are very HR e they're very legal language, so, um, even to a lay, like, any lay person, they, you read that and you're like, what am I reading,

Saraya:

Yeah.

Sophia Ballone:

I don't understand it and so, I think part of the reason why I like to do it with them is because I can explain it to them and some

Saraya:

Easy read. Yeah. And put it into language that people understand.

Sophia Ballone:

Exactly.

Saraya:

We have, like for example here, we have all of our policies in EasyRoute, and I think that that

Andrea:

So you're saying in addition to, sort of, helping the graduate sort of completing the form, Helping the employer. Employers, what we do, what we can do and what we do is help them transform their practices so that they're more inclusive.

Saraya:

Yes. Right. A hundred percent. again, and I say this it's not just to help people with a disability, but if you make these slight changes, it actually helps every single person in that workplace.

Andrea:

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Saraya:

It gets huge. There's so many different, um, things that you can do. Um, and we go in and we help employers do this. I'm like, if you don't know, you don't know. But there's no silly questions, there's no dumb questions. like, it can be the stupidest question and we'll take that call.

Andrea:

What are some of the common misconceptions that businesses have about hiring people with disabilities?

Sophia Ballone:

They're not going to be as efficient.

Saraya:

And productive.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah. by all means, the training period is, it will take them a little longer. but that's why we're here. We provide the support. for their employer, for the graduates, so that they can take that extra time and learn it properly. Once they learn it properly, they'll be the first one to tell you you're doing it wrong.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Sophia Ballone:

So.

Andrea:

There's a great chart that I think you guys used in in your tour around the state with Destination New South Wales that shows like the gap of skills and the fact that we fill in that gap. And that gap could reduce over time or could be always there to some extent or become bigger or smaller depending on the time because Lots of stuff happens in life, you know, like life events that create sort of a traumatic experience for a person that sort of puts a challenge.

Saraya:

There's two different gaps. There's a skills gap that you can train, or there is a gap

Andrea:

capacity,

Saraya:

like adjustments, like, soph super short. Can't reach the top shelf. That's an adjustment that we need to make for her.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Saraya:

It's, the adjustments that you make for people with a disability is the same as making adjustments for anybody else. the work from home. A lot of people work from home now.

Andrea:

So actually that's, that's a good, example. Like, could could you give us um, two or three practical examples of things that we've done, equipment that we bought, adjustments that we've made here at Autoletico that may have been even taken to the employers, um, that try and sort of bridge that gap for some of our graduates. What have we done? What can be done?

Saraya:

Only two or three? Cause we could, yeah, only a couple. We could name a couple.

Sophia Ballone:

My favorite one that we have implemented here is the, um, Queen and King Sheets.

Saraya:

It's So my favorite.

Andrea:

explain that?

Saraya:

Um, so in our housekeeping area where we have our, um, Queen and King sheets, we have a picture of a Queen and King rather than words Queen and King.

Andrea:

Simple.

Sophia Ballone:

simple, easy, It's literally cost you nothing. Queen and King. And it's so much more efficient and,

Saraya:

especially because all the sheets are white.

Andrea:

So do you have like what, King Charles and Queen Elizabeth? No. We should do that.

Sophia Ballone:

No, because not everyone recognises them.

Saraya:

Not everybody recognises them. We've got the very visual, the easy, Queen.

Andrea:

And the words as well. So there's both, right?

Saraya:

Yeah, there is both. And that, that is free. And, um, again, it doesn't just If I go in there, I'm like,

Andrea:

What else from an equipment point of view?

Sophia Ballone:

From an equipment point of view?

Saraya:

Well, there's Dom. Dom at the Fairmont. So, he has dexterity, you know, limitations. just Strength limitations. and he loves housekeeping. He, he wanted to be in housekeeping. and his is a mop. He couldn't do housekeeping'cause he couldn't use the mop here. So, it's about getting that assessment in. And that was all done through Job Access.

Andrea:

It's an awesome mop.

Saraya:

It's an, oh, you can't,

Sophia Ballone:

everyone wants it.

Saraya:

Yeah, Everyone wants it. It went with him.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, it did go with him.

Saraya:

It went with him.

Andrea:

Well I think we've got another one now,'cause I saw, I saw someone yell someone else using it here, so I think we bought another one.

Saraya:

We did, yeah, we did buy a new one. But, um, you know, a mop that you push into drain instead of the ones that you,

Andrea:

Without too much strength, and you just

Saraya:

Yeah, It's really old school ones that you see in the hotels? that have them. Oh yeah.

Andrea:

And that's easy, that's an easy thing.

Saraya:

It's easy. And and I think, um, a common misconception is that it's going to cost the employer so much money. That didn't cost our, us, or the family where he is now, any money.

Andrea:

Cause it's government funded.

Saraya:

It's government funded. He has, the funding for it. which is really good.

Andrea:

So that's great.

Saraya:

In the bar, for example, like we have, you know, wine jiggers.

Andrea:

And the tampers for coffee.

Sophia Ballone:

I was going to say the tampers

Saraya:

Everyone loves the tampers. Great it's like it puts less,

Andrea:

There's a spring loaded one, There's an automatic one.

Saraya:

We were talking to um, Ashoria, yesterday, what was the one that she was telling you about?

Andrea:

Yeah, like the, to pour glasses of wine, Like I haven't seen it yet, I haven't quite pictured what it looks like.

Saraya:

Yeah, so what I picture it, and I'm sure it'll come in the next few weeks, is because we have a trainee that shakes a lot, he can't pour the bottle of wine with that, but it actually pours it from the bottle standing up, so it like, it automatically pours

Andrea:

the right amount,

Saraya:

the right amount from the bottle standing up. It's Brilliant, that's cool, so smart.

Andrea:

Can we talk a little bit about the difference that employing someone with makes within the culture of an organization, and I can think of, You know some of the anecdotes that uh, have been offered to us by our employment partners to say that the difference that this has made. What does it change? What does it do?

Sophia Ballone:

what doesn't it do? It's actually incredible how to have just one person. how it changes the whole atmosphere and environment of a hotel. Particularly Back of House, like,

Saraya:

You've experienced it firsthand too, before you came here, so you're probably one of the. the people that can really explain it to employers. because

Andrea:

It lifts the happiness rate?

Saraya:

Yeah, it's,

Sophia Ballone:

the fact that you have someone so excited, so enthusiastic, so happy to be at work and to be there, and just constantly greeting everyone. And, I remember I, I, this particular graduate, I had to have a conversation with him because he was going through the whole hotel at one stage saying good morning to everyone. Which was making him late for his shift.

Saraya:

So he just needed to get there way, way, way early.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, exactly. So, um, yeah. But it was, it was wonderful just seeing how happy everyone was to see him. How happy he was there. And that just changed everything. Back of house, the, yeah, the mood just was constantly a lot better.

Saraya:

I get really, um, homesick from Etiko if I've been away for too long. Like if we're in the city with meetings and stuff like that, I get really, really homesick because you walk in and it's just like, Like, and it's just like, it just lifts you.

Andrea:

It's an injection of happiness. and yeah, authenticity. There's a certain level of authenticity, especially with people with intellectual disability, autism, Down syndrome. That's just, open book.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah,

Saraya:

I think people are pleasantly surprised when they work with somebody that has a disability that can actually work, and that can, you know, has the skills to be able to work. They have this, their perception of that person changes, their perception of disability changes. and I think, you know, well, I mean, us three in the room, absolutely, but I think most people go to work because they, they, don't just go to work because it's a job, right? They go, yes, money is needed, makes the world go round, live but I think most people want to know that they're doing good, and especially at work. I think a lot of people want that, and I think that they get that when it's within their culture.

Andrea:

And, that's all we want to do in terms of changing the culture of an organization. if there are pockets of people that, haven't thought about that. They just do it because they need to do it by working with someone with a disability or working with an organization that has an inclusive approach to their hiring practices. It just changes completely the perspective and the perception of your employer. You want to work there.

Saraya:

Yeah, absolutely.

Andrea:

so isn't, isn't there an anecdote of, um, uh, the Fairmont Resorts that has reported to us that whenever we do training Um, around disability, That's the most attended. the best attended.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, the highest attendee, um, or attendance for training, is actually the training that we provide.

Saraya:

Actually, that's a great segue into, what does Hotel Etiquette do for employers? Yes, we help them with the recruitment process and everything, um, but we are much, much more. So we support them you know, throughout the entire journey, one of our graduates. But there are also employers that don't have our graduates that we support, that we train. Um, so I think it's really important to to cover that. Like, what do we do?

Andrea:

At industry level.

Saraya:

At industry level. What do we do? In a nutshell, Cause we do a lot.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, we do do a lot. definitely training, um, and I think that's crucial and I'd like to also take this opportunity to Pretty much ask our partners as well to not be afraid to take us on for training because I noticed even when even though they might be open and they might already have some graduates with with them There's never like not enough training you can have and with this in hospitality, it's so new that by all means, just take advantage of what we can actually do.

Andrea:

What is some of the training that we do? What topics? What do we cover?

Saraya:

Um, what do we? you name it. You've got disability etiquette, you've got autism, Down syndrome, we've got online modules. we also do one on one coaching. Like, it's not,

Andrea:

um, With HR, with supervisors.

Saraya:

And if we don't have the training, we'll find the training. we're not

Andrea:

Partnering with others.

Saraya:

Yeah, we're not exclusive. Like, if, If we need to, if we don't have the training that they want, say, um, mental health, or um, I'm trying to think of something we don't have, but if we don't have it.

Andrea:

So, for example, the training we did, uh, for autism, we did it in partnership with Aspect, right?

Saraya:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that there's such a good, movement at the moment within the disability space that we are all collaborative. You know, we're not competitive. Um, we want, everybody has the same mission, and that is for, people to be more included.

Andrea:

Because it's like rising the tide all the boats lift. That's another metaphor.

Saraya:

Is it?

Sophia Ballone:

Yes, it is.

Saraya:

I've never heard that one. Okay, what is it?

Andrea:

If you increase the level of the tide.

Saraya:

No, no, no, Say it from the beginning so I can comprehend it. What is it?

Andrea:

Well, It's rising the level of the tide so that all the boats lift.

Saraya:

Never heard it.

Andrea:

So we're working on the tide, on the water, not on the boats. Yes. Okay. The boats are there, we're working on the water, filling more water in there.

Saraya:

Nah, I really am not getting that metaphor. Got a better one?

Sophia Ballone:

give him some time.

Saraya:

I think another, another thing with employers is that Well, not the ones we currently work with, they're pretty good, but, like people are scared to ask questions.

Sophia Ballone:

Oh yeah, that's it, and it's really funny because, I'll be the first one to call it out. when I speak to employers, I'm like, I get it, you're scared. Like, it's, fear is normal, and it's fine because it's something that's new.

Andrea:

Of the unknown,

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, it's, it's being scared of the unknown, and that's why I keep saying I'm like, That's why we're here. We, we are like your little source of information.

Saraya:

That should definitely be one of our mottos.

Andrea:

That's why we're here?

Saraya:

No, the other one?

Andrea:

Which one?

Saraya:

You guys didn't pick up on it. Oh. Don't be afraid to ask questions like No, no. One of our mottoes should be, it's normal It's normal to have fear. is normal.

Andrea:

Yeah.

Saraya:

Like it's a human nature to have fear.

Sophia Ballone:

And Especially when you're talking about big businesses, because at the end of the day, you're, you're running an empire. You're running something that's, um, you're scared to bring something new in because you don't know what the impact is going to be.

Andrea:

But again, as I said to an audience of hoteliers a few months ago, like, No one's going to sue you. You're actually offering a job to someone. You're giving an opportunity of a lifetime to someone. They're not going to take you on for doing, for saying the wrong word or, you know, like, approaching things in the wrong way, you're there to help them and you open up a completely different world.

Saraya:

Everybody has the right to sue, not just somebody with a disability. You probably have more likelihood of being sued by somebody that doesn't have a disability.

Sophia Ballone:

yes, it would be actually really. really good idea if we could, when we actually tell them that they've been recruited, to get the reaction that like a video reaction of the graduate and also the family. I think that's, what, in our process the employers miss. they'll see them enthusiastic and everything when they start. and I'll see them all nervous in their interviews, but that By all means, don't take it away from me. I that's my favorite part of the job. But, yeah, I think it's, it's something that would be really cool.

Saraya:

I love it. I also, I think I love, I love it when the employers call me and just to say, hey, like, this person's a bit of a, they're amazing. Or, hey, come and visit, surprise them, come and see them. I think that's one of my favourite parts of my job. Definitely fills my cup.

Andrea:

So you must be always on the road.

Sophia Ballone:

I've gotten used to driving, that's for sure.

Andrea:

Lots of, uh, podcasts listening.

Saraya:

Yeah,

Sophia Ballone:

actually, no,

Andrea:

This will give you content.

Saraya:

She won't she won't, listen to this one.

Sophia Ballone:

Oh, no, I can't listen to my own voice. Yeah, definitely, The other episodes. no, I actually love I'm a very big Car karaoke girl. So I'm literally like, when I'm driving up here, I'm like,

Saraya:

Oh my God, yes, let's do it. I, I'm the same. I'm like, I need the bangers. I had some great bangers on there, but sometimes like the morning, sometimes I prefer a podcast because I can just, definitely on the way home. I'm a podcast person, but sometimes you just need some pep music.

Andrea:

All right. Let's get back to serious stuff.

Saraya:

What's not serious

Andrea:

What are the biggest challenges in moving from providing jobs to creating careers, lasting careers for people with disabilities? What's the difference? What, is there a difference?

Sophia Ballone:

I think it's actually the graduates that's probably the biggest challenge because they are so happy with whatever they get that they won't be picky. They won't be aspirational and I constantly have to be encouraging them. I'm like, guys, you need to be able to communicate what you want. You need to communicate. If you're interested in a different department, Like, let us know, talk about it, um, because, you

Andrea:

And we've we've had people moving around. Within the same hotels or different hotels.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah.

Saraya:

You're right, actually. I never really thought about that because, you know, it's not necessarily the employers that don't want to build a career pathway.

Andrea:

Because they don't know what they don't know. Basically.

Saraya:

that's a big hurdle. I've, I've, I, know it. I've never said it out loud. That's I love this podcast.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. like that's

Andrea:

And so how do we support them to think of a career rather than a job?

Sophia Ballone:

Surely building confidence. Yeah, it's building confidence.

Andrea:

How do you do that?

Sophia Ballone:

having honest chats with them about things, about the options that they have. making sure that, you know, they're actually comfortable and confident within the role they're currently doing. Yeah, I I definitely think, and having, and being able to also, help them get the confidence to speak to their employers about it as well. I think that's another challenge.

Saraya:

I think the one year here really does help, though, Oh yeah. to build that confidence. So, like, the confidence that they have from the start.

Andrea:

Yeah, absolutely.

Saraya:

To When they graduate, like, that's already

Andrea:

Yeah, absolutely. And so in terms of, in terms of how you provide the support, obviously we said you're on the road a lot, you see them, you talk to them, you call them, you email them, You got lots of touch points. But you also have a bit of a team of people, I suppose, that go around and work with them, right? Support workers.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah.

Andrea:

Yeah. Um, like how does that work? What do they do? Are they always with them? Are they always with the graduates?

Sophia Ballone:

so when they first commence a role, um, I've made sure that they have a support worker with them for the first month, um, so that they you know, get used to the routine, the team from the employer's side have someone that they can actually give what needs to be done so that they can get, they can work on getting them on the routine rather than the employer having to get them into it. and. After that, it's really just checking to see what the individual needs.

Andrea:

And then you slowly pull away?

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, and slowly start pulling away. Some of them will turn around and tell us that, they don't need them from one week to the next. I can think of a couple that have done that to me.

Andrea:

That's great.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, it's, it's the best feeling.

Andrea:

is it the employer tells you that or the graduate?

Sophia Ballone:

No, the graduate.

Saraya:

But there's also, um, I think there's a level of trust with the employer to reach out if they need help. Like, we, we also, like, we've, we've, we've backed away support once completely for a year because they were completely fine in their job, they didn't, like, I mean, not the touch points and stuff, but I meant the one on one on the job support. Um, and then a year later, he's like, yeah, so, I want to move into another job. So let's, and then the support was back, you know, to get into a new routine and stuff. So. I think Etico, you always, it's like the hotel, you always, you never leave, right?

Andrea:

Yes, we talked about the Hotel California. and who, this is like for employers, like who actually covers the cost of that support worker? Who pays for it?

Sophia Ballone:

NDIS.

Saraya:

Yeah.

Andrea:

So we cover that cost through, through the NDIS. effectively.

Saraya:

So our participants um, have, have the funding for that ongoing support.

Andrea:

Yeah. So the employer actually doesn't have to do anything.

Sophia Ballone:

No. Just let us know.

Saraya:

And also, and also the disability services that we work with, the disability providers that we work with also have that type of support.

Andrea:

Those job subsidies as well.

Saraya:

job services, but they do on the job support. They're a third party for us. Like We aren't we aren't as provider. So they're a third party, they keep us pretty honest. Um, and they, they basically help, um, our graduates as well. So they have two, which is really great. It's all about wraparound support.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah.

Andrea:

any advice for, cause we need to probably start wrapping it up. what any advice that you would give to businesses that might be listening to us, that if they were interested in becoming more inclusive in their hiring practices or interested in, Yeah, Employing someone with disability or working with us.

Sophia Ballone:

Call us.

Saraya:

We don't have a 1 800 number. Just putting it out there. Um, but also, I think the biggest one is just don't be scared. Yeah. There's no stupid question either.

Sophia Ballone:

It's normal to be scared to introduce something new. Um, and yeah, it's, it's just that little leap, making that little leap. And just

Saraya:

even if we don't have a graduate necessarily, we can still help them employ other people.

Sophia Ballone:

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We can, We can help them yeah, with training, or we can help them finding an avenue where they can start developing what they need to be able to actually employ someone with a disability.

Andrea:

And we are starting to build up the numbers quite a bit. So we can now sort of I've covered quite a few different regions in terms of where the employees can come from. Because we were saying in previous episodes that, you know, our trainees come from two or three hours away from Victoria, which means, you know, like all the way from Canberra to Bathurst to to the Blue Mountains, Sutherland Shire, Northern Beaches, Newcastle, And so then. If I'm from Newcastle, well, and I'm a graduate, I can probably look for a job even north of Newcastle or West of Newcastle. You know, like there's, there's the radius keeps increasing. So we've recently set up this, neat little thing on our dashboard, on our system, right. You and I. That shows us the map coverage.

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah. It's so good.

Andrea:

It's so good Cause it shows us the map coverage of where our trainees are coming from and where the employees are. And so you can do it. It's fantastic.

Saraya:

I know, I know. I've been, I work in the same office as you two. but You two just get all excited about it and stuff. And I'm like, geeks be geeking out. I've got one last question for you. Are you finished? Yes. Yes. Um, and this is going to be a really tough one. Um, and I think I'm going to do it to all of our staff when we interview them. What is your favorite part or aspect of your job, what Gets you out of bed to come to work every day. What's your favorite?

Andrea:

The alarm.

Sophia Ballone:

I can't say you too. You can say us too. That's a compliment.

Andrea:

You're not allowed to suck up to us.

Sophia Ballone:

damn it, okay.

Saraya:

I'll take it on board. Suck up all you like.

Sophia Ballone:

oh that one's a hard one.

Saraya:

So obviously it's us, Andrea.

Sophia Ballone:

That's really, really hard. I I really enjoy just the relationships that I create with the, trainees and with the graduates. it's like someone else that's super excited to see you. honestly, I absolutely love that feeling and I get so excited to come up here. Especially since, you know, I have a two hour drive to get here.

Saraya:

It's yeah, It's not an easy hike.

Andrea:

Big commitment.

Sophia Ballone:

but yeah, no, and it's really funny. cause Sometimes I'm like, okay, I've got this, I've got this, I can do this. and Waking up at 5am or 5 30, and I'm just like, I can do this. And then I walk through these doors and I'm just like, yeah,

Andrea:

I mean, your job is one of the hardest one. I'm not just saying because you're here, like you, the, the rate of success, is, is, is critical and like for any one of us. To get one job, you probably need to do 10 interviews. or, you know, and, and, and so it takes a long time. And so once you lock that person in, it's like, yes. It's like you, you're too young to remember the ad from h r Block, which is a tax agent. There was, there was, a lady that was doing the accounts and finding, a saving for, for uh, for a customer, for a client. And she goes like, she looks around, and she goes. Yes,

Saraya:

I think I've seen it.

Sophia Ballone:

I think I have seen it too.

Saraya:

In Queensland we used to have very different ads. Like we, like you know how it's NRMA down here? it's RACQ up there. If you're ever bored, YouTube, RACQ ads. They are the greatest thing you'll ever see. It's way better than yes.

Andrea:

Yeah, well, but you know the satisfaction, the level of that sense of satisfaction and uh, which,

Sophia Ballone:

Yeah, the, definitely the level of satisfaction once they get um, a role is incredible.

Saraya:

But, it can,

Andrea:

but you're saying also the smile in their face when they see you.

Saraya:

it can be deflating though.

Sophia Ballone:

But it, it like, exhausting. I, I remember my first week where I got multiple rejections for them and I was pretty much in a ball. on the, I was just right there with you with chocolates. Yeah, it's really hard.

Saraya:

We have lots of chocolate, that's fine. We, We have a stash of chocolates for those things. Yeah. There's really tough weeks. The rejection

Sophia Ballone:

That's why we do what we do. Because it's hard. I know. We don't do it because it's easy. Yeah. Everyone would do it. Everybody would do it.

Andrea:

You know who's quote that is, right?

Saraya:

Yours?

Andrea:

JFK.

Saraya:

JFK, no. I'm not great.

Andrea:

We choose to go to the moon, not because it's easy. We choose to go into the moon because it's hard.

Saraya:

Okay, if I can't get metaphors right, what makes you think I'm going to get quotes right?

Andrea:

Listen to me.

Saraya:

There are there are many things that are great about me, but there are many things that aren't. That is one.

Andrea:

Okay.

Sophia Ballone:

I think there are more great things than

Saraya:

Oh, thank you, Sophie, you really are a suck up today.

Sophia Ballone:

Thank you.

Andrea:

Anything else to close this off?

Saraya:

No, I think that's a wrap.

Andrea:

Yeah, that's a wrap. Well, Sophia, it's been a great pleasure to have you.

Saraya:

You'll be on again, because we barely barely scratched the surface of how we can help people.

Andrea:

absolutely. You'll be a regular.

Sophia Ballone:

Thanks.

Saraya:

She's like, uh oh.

Andrea:

You sound so excited.

Sophia Ballone:

Well, The first one is done and dusted and, and, you know.

Saraya:

It's fun.

Andrea:

And I have to say, you've got a great voice.

Saraya:

Yeah, you do. For somebody that doesn't like.

Andrea:

I don't know if it's the mic or something, but you've got a great, warm voice for, um, for, for radio.

Sophia Ballone:

Makes me feel a little bit better about my voice.

Saraya:

I like it.

Andrea:

okay. Well, thank you very much, Sophia. Thanks to our listeners. And don't forget to subscribe, like, follow,

Saraya:

I don't think we've ever said that before. Do people still subscribe and like?

Andrea:

Yeah, it's very, very important. So send suggestions.

Saraya:

Oh yeah, actually you're right, Lylah. I need to subscribe.

Andrea:

We need a few influencers out there That's sort of like.

Sophia Ballone:

Okay, Lylah and William.

Saraya:

Okay, Lylah is my daughter and William is.

Andrea:

but yes, uh, we'll close it here. We thank everyone for listening and, uh, uh, until next time from Andrea Comastri. And Saraya O'Connell. let's make room for all and keep fighting for inclusion.

People on this episode

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Andrea Comastri

Host
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Saraya O'Connell

Co-host